In the first episode of a new show I have started called Damn Discussion I decided to talk about and examine the Stand Your Ground law in America. Using audio from the media and music to get my point across I hope you decide to listen and give me your views on this topic. Click here to download or add to your site.
I wonder if Zimmerman had been shot dead, would Trayvon Martin been able to successfully argue under the Stand Your Ground law? Would it have been more complicated because he was a visitor to the complex and, frankly, Black?
ReplyDeleteHow were the jurors persuaded the truth of Trayvon reaching for Zimmerman's gun? I find that such a strange scenario to imagine. It sounds like the kid did square up to Zimmerman, but a young man posturing and a young man going to grab someone's gun are such very different things.
And this is too damn sad, but carrying a gun leads to tragedy, particularly in the hands of a self-important idiots like Zimmerman. Ok, it's complicated in a violent country like America, but legal private handgun ownership makes no sense to me.
And it's sad too that one of the clips you played was about how someone felt Obama politicised the issue by showing empathy with the Martin family.
Do people genuinely believe that Trayvon Martin meant to harm Zimmerman for hassling him? The jury did, for some strange reason. I don't. I just don't see it. I see a jumped up macho idiot out of his depth during a simple confrontation.
If Zimmerman had been shot dead we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Trayvon Martin would have been tried and convicted in days and already in prison. There are more cases like the other two I mentioned where Stand Your Ground didn't work for them. The fact that he was heading to his father's place and when the police asked Zimmerman questions about his own location he couldn't shows that Zimmerman was just hunting. He wasn't even "on duty" as a neighborhood watch member.
ReplyDeleteThe jury of six women which none of whom were Black in Florida where 36% of the population is Black is ridiculous are now arguing in the media with each other. They are going to somehow fight their way into a mistrial.
Like Joe Rogan said in that clip, if you cant, as a "protector" of your community, use your hands to fight someone off without killing them with a gun then you shouldn't be allowed to perform that particular task. He and the situation were the perfect mix of everything bad that can happen happening.
That was Karl Rove that made the statement about Obama. (American Republican political consultant and policy adviser)
I believe that the people that believe that Zimmerman was is a victim in this and that Trayvon Martin was trying to hurt him and not protect himself from this guy who had no business shooting let alone even following him have to ask themselves a lot of questions and question their own hearts on the matter. This whole thing is gonna get worse before it gets better. Thanks for listening, H.
I've been trying very hard to understand how someone can provoke a situation, and then over-react when the situation goes out of their control and killing the other person, and then be found innocent of murder (second degree murder).
ReplyDeletePlease bear with me as I am still trying to fully work through my thoughts on this. My thinkings are complicated!
In the UK there have been cases where police officers have been prosecuted for using excessive force. The officers have argued that they felt that the level of force they used was justified under the circumstances. Juries have agreed that the officer genuinely believed that the force was justified, but have disagreed with the officer's belief. The officer's judgement is the issue and a British jury has had no problems in the past finding that the officer's judgement was poor, his decision therefore was wrong, so he broke the law by using excessive force. He may have felt justified, but he was not. Conviction follows.
People get convicted all the time when they make bad judgements, and so they should be. People need to held responsible for bad decisions that impact on other people.
With this Stand Your Ground law, it seems that all that matters is that the accused felt their life was threatened, thus justifying their use of force. All you have to prove is that you felt threatened enough to shoot someone.
So what if the accused is an idiot like Zimmerman? If you're too dumb/paranoid/arrogant to be able to assess the situation? Zimmerman seems to have felt so threatened by a young black male that he felt justified in shooting him dead.
The jury agreed with him. So you live in a country where it is considered reasonable to respond to being/feeling threatened by a black male by killing him.
Well, fuck me.
This verdict would not have happened in the UK, a country which has similar tensions between the Black community and the police. Because the UK is not inherently scared of black men. A British jury will usually be ruthlessly objective about these situations, and Zimmerman would more than likely have been held accountable for his poor judgement, even if the jury agreed that he genuinely felt afraid for his life.
American racism goes far deeper than I can get my head around.
I remember Rove from the George W days, a barely human piece of shit. I don't use words like that easily.
Thanks for putting up all these original clips. There's so much gassing on about this trial, it's good to apre it back to essentials. Hope you continue with this new podcast concept.
Incidentally I realise it might seem strange to you or dumb of me to have to spend time and effort understanding what I just described in my previous comment. But the thinking behind the verdict is beyond the scope of my experience and is genuinely hard to understand for someone who is not American. I'm sure you understood intuitively all of that which I had to spend ages thinking about. Assuming I'm on the right track of course, maybe I'm way off.
ReplyDeleteIf you start to think about this case and how it even happened and how it ended you will end up in the same spot you started. It is maddening talking about this law because the law doesn't make sense. We all want to be able to defend ourselves but this law makes it so you can start shit, get scared, kill, and get off free.
ReplyDeletePeople have been bringing up all the other things that can get you arrested for like buying/selling drugs, drunk driving, crossing the street wrong. Compared to killing another human being they are small but they are still things against the law. There is a thing called justifiable homicide and Zimmerman felt justified in killing a kid that was beating his ass because he decided that he was gonna go Batman on him.
I try to keep race out of this especially since I am the same race as the kid killed and have been handcuffed, bothered, and followed by police. I know what it is like to be a suspect as soon as I step somewhere. I try to look at the law as it stands and it is a ridiculous law.
Thanks for commenting. If I think of more to say I definitely will. I will be doing more of these shows and have a few friends that want to be a part of it.
I like the fact that you try to keep as objective as possible about the race component of all this, but as far as I can see, what happened both on the night and subsequently in the court only makes sense once they are put in the context of race. Which is exactly what you say about where the case started and ended of course. Like most people, I get irritated when people leap on race/gender/whatever and wave their victim complex around, but honestly, this can't be understood if the role race played is ignored. Anyone who feels race was not a huge, or even the major, part of this is in serious denial about how racism actually works.
ReplyDeleteDelighted to hear you're doing more shows. If you think I could add something to any of them, I'd love to be part of one.
I was just telling a friend that she and you are two people I have wanted to record something with for a long time now. I will likely do another one very, very soon and give you a good heads up on the topic and when I will be recording it.
ReplyDeleteIt was hard to talk about this topic without race coming into it since it seems to benefit and work for one race far more than the next. Bill O'Reilly did an interview with Tavis Smiley where Tavis pointed out that the NRA has not come out telling every Black man to arm himself the way they have done in so many other instances of gun violence. O'Reiley made it seem as if that idea was ridiculous. That says a whole lot.